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Great article Deane!
I also think this short little podcast by Mike Verta should be required listening for every composer working in media: http://www.mikeverta.com/Posts/Getting_Paid.mp3
I put my foot down recently and was willing to walk away if I didn't get paid what I thought was fair. Saying "no" was very empowering and even though I ended up getting what I wanted this time I would've been fine with it going the other way as well.
Turns out that this quote by Mr Verta is true:
"You don't get what you deserve; you get what you accept."
Best regards
Jon
Firstly, I completely agree with what you're saying about a culture of free… and that composers should charge, after all it's a product and service that's worth something to the client. And we are trying to make a living doing this, not a hobby.
BUT… you can't run a creative business nowadays demanding what you think your services are worth, the industry doesn't work like that.
I used to work as a computer programmer, you can charge per hour, per day or have a fixed wage with that kind of work… but composers, artists, sculptors, musicians don't get treated that way. We have been (and probably always will be) seen as those who do what they do for the pleasure of it. Let's face it, none of us went into this industry to just get a job did we.
Maybe if you're at the top of your game and you're getting a steady stream of well-paid projects laid at your door, you can afford that kind of sentiment and afford to turn down clients who are not willing to pay the proper price, but the reality is that the people hiring don't value what we offer as highly as we do.
I don't believe this is just down to composers setting a cultural attitude, this is down to a general shift in the industry towards free music… music libraries offering sync licenses for free or subscriptions where you get as much as you like for one yearly license. The composers are expected to get their return from the royalties, which we all know is ridiculous.
I lost a job last month because a client spent ALL of the music budget on other stuff and had nothing left for music, so used a library instead. That is the kind of mindset we're dealing with.
Also music is available now from your favourite bands for free on services like Spotify, this adds to the cultural mindset of the value of music.
Also the availability of professional "free" products to young wannabe composers, who still live at home with their parents and have no overheads has saturated the market with "composers" offering work for free. Sure what they produce may be completely crap work, but the client just sees that people are willing to do it for free, and it sometimes sounds just as good to their ears, so we're now competing against them too.
ALSO… it can be beneficial to do favours for young film-makers and those early on in their career who are talented, but haven't yet got the budgets to afford a proper music budget.
All of these factors put together in a melting pot, added with the fact I have bills to pay and new gear to buy to keep my sound current and high quality, I am willing to do stuff cheap and sometimes free if I have to, to form a relationship with a potentially successful Director in the hope it may pay my bills in 5 years time.
This isn't lazily hoping someone else will do the work for me and open the doors… I'm having to work twice as hard, once on the stuff I am being paid for and once on the stuff I'm not… demos, pitches, favours etc.
This is how you make money from what you do… if on my first gig I had demanded payment that reflected the value of my work rather than the cheap amount they paid, I would've lost the job and never got my next break.
Even the guys at the very top of their game (world-class composers) still do stuff for free and for WAY below anything you'd expect them to even turn their DAW on for… I'm not making that up, I know it as a fact. And they also often demo/pitch for free.
You sometimes have to consider the free stuff as a marketing cost. Every successful company selling products/services spends considerable money and resources on marketing themselves, this isn't considered wasteful… it is an investment. We have to do the same thing… and our marketing tends to be giving our music to a project so that we build relationship, get credits, get seen on reputable broadcast media by other potential clients.
So…. although I agree with the fact that we should know what our services and products are worth and seek full reimbursement for our effort and skill, we also need to be wise enough to know when to do something for free and when to do something cheap if it's going to be a long-term investment in a relationship.
that's quite a bold generalisation about young composers, there, stu. i don't see why a young composer who is working for free from their parents' house is necessarily going to be 'completely crap'. are the only good composers the old ones who live in their own houses and charge for their work? the professional products of which you speak are available to old people for 'free' too – but that doesn't mean that everyone chooses to acquire their software that way. it's the same with the young wannabes.
Simon Porter yeah you're right … I didn't explain that very clearly. Obviously there are plenty of wannabe composers who are amazing … every composer has started somewhere. I more mean that the availability of great libs has made it easier for those who don't have any talent or experience to make it sound like they can do something, when they can't necessarily write, arrange, play anything or produce themselves.
This wasn't an issue in years gone by … as you only had access to "the sounds" (or real musicians) when you were working in studios or being trained by a successful composer.
I just think this is a factor now … because if a pitch goes out, a music publisher (or whoever) has to trawl through all the tracks that are being submitted by composers as well as those from 16 year-olds, who've just downloaded Symphobia illegally and pressed a few buttons to make a sound. (generalising again … but I think you get the point I'm trying to make).
Maybe a better way for me to say it is:
Accessibility has created a greater supply in the market … and that usually means a dilution of quality, which has certainly happened in composing … although it could also be argued that the threshold for production quality has also increased for the same reason.
Simon Porter —Well said. And true. I understand where Stu is coming from, but on that bit, I agree that the Culture of Free transcends age, position, or economic status. It is a midset of "character". Period.
Stu Kennedy – i completely see what you mean about pressing a few buttons in a good library and submitting that as a piece. admittedly, i was checking out some libraries just the other day and was worried when i heard how easy it is to make something that sounds very authentic with little work required.
but i don't actually think it is a cause for concern. if certain libraries do make it easy to make a track with a couple of presets, that just means there will be a lot of very similar-sounding tracks out there – which leaves a niche for the composers who want to explore their own identity. personally, i wouldn't want to work with a director if they just wanted a very particular, over-done sound all the time – but that's just me!
Thank you for weighing here, Stu. I value what you are saying and I think you are spot on with your point about sample libs making it easier for people with little r no training to "write" big, bold, and brash film music.
I also agree with your assertion that "you can't run a creative business nowadays demanding what you think your services are worth". You are right. You have to demand what you KNOW they are worth — which is precisely my point. The industry *does*, in fact, work that way. It always has. When you buy milk at the grocer, you pay what the price tag says you'll pay. There is no negotiating, there is no haggling, there is no deferred arrangement… you just pay that amount. Obviously, that is micro business and we talking about macro-level business, so there is room for negotiation in most film music contracts, but when you yourself say "[we] don't get treated that way" — the way computer programmers do, I would argue that it is only that way because, as a people group, composers don't set any kind of relative standard for their services in the way that you did as a programmer.
I have a set rate. It is negotiable, but only from THAT number. If the buyer doesn't like it, I totally understand, but at that point it becomes my prerogative as to whether I choose to continue negotiating or not. Not the buyer's. As a creative content provider, I am not going to play both roles — buyer and seller – so that a buyer doesn't have to own the responsibility of making a buying decision. That's just "Business 101", and if that's the game, I'm not your guy.
Thanks for opening up this discussion Deane; it's really interesting to see how different people handle this issue. But most of all, it's great that you're getting us to think about how we approach the problem, and important that we don't get caught in making decisions about our value and worth based on being forced into a corner by a cultural trend. Great topic!
Stu Kennedy Thanks for being in this, man. You have a foot in both pools, which is a perspective few have. I'm always listening if you are speaking.
Stu Kennedy Thanks for being in this, man. You have a foot in both pools, which is a perspective few have. I'm always listening if you are speaking.
Absolutely agree with this!
Sigh. I had a consulting job before I turned my back on it to compose for games, TV, commercials. Or to phrase this better: try to compose for games, TV, commercials.
I, too wonder, why some industries get paid for everything. If I got to the doctor, each handshake has a price tag attached to it. Doctors never do estimates, they just charge you.
As a consultant, I had daily rates that other industries just dream of.
But frankly spoken. Many artists just do a very bad job at promoting themselves. You said it, it's too comfy to sit in a chair and not calculate the costs through. So better be creative, give it away and hope it will get better. The market is broken, because the people that work hard and want to get paid, are set aside by the myriad of people who gives it away for free and sells themselves massively under value.
I went to some websites of my colleague competitors. I've seen some prices. I've even seen prices per minute, so somebody did some calculation. I've seen prices from 150$/m for easy projects (4 tracks) to 250$/m for more complex projects such as orchestra. I did my own calculation. Target monthly wage, social benefits, holidays, office, computer, software, YES LIBRARIES etc. For a fairly average wage I would need to charge 350$ upwards per minute only to cover all these expenses and pay myself. And I have quite a low footprint! Maybe it's me, maybe I'm too inefficient, but I don't think so. Everybody cooks with water, there's no exception. Composing something, making a draft, finishing a track, adding bells and whistles, and doing some decent mixing just takes time, and the customer often wants some changes, too, which should be factored into the final price per minute.
There are small start-up projects though that currently can't pay you. But they're offering a percentage of the sales. Now this of course is a risk. And you better check out the game before you agree to anything. It should be a game that really is cool and you would like to play yourself. Otherwise, if it's just the 1000th clone of XYZ, it's probably not going to sell too much and you can't even cover some small costs. You would have better agreed to another project in that time (opportunity cost). Has anybody experience with percentages? Does this usually work out in the end?
I'm trying hard to negotiate a fair price. It's strange. Here in Switzerland, graphic designers who do logos and business cards charge 140$ per hour! And people pay it. It's normal. Design is hip. But composing and sound design? Well, you just have to point a mic somewhere, right? Why should I pay a lot for that. And as for music, you play some notes on the piano and it sounds good. What can be so hard. People don't understand, and we have to educate them. You're right, it's us who need to move and do the effort.
I know a guy who is constantly complaining that he can't make any money as a composer, but he always seems busy on tiny little indie films that get limited commercial releases or direct-to-DVD deals in ad-hoc countries here or there. I asked him what he's charging and he said, "Oh, I don't charge anything: I want them to continue to hire me for their next projects."? To continue to hire you FOR FREE? So you don't charge someone in a situation where everyone on the film is getting paid EXCEPT you, all so that they will like you enough to work with you again? And then to complain that you can't make any money as a composer — WOW that's frustrating. So when a composer asks me "What should I charge for this project?" I always tell them that if they need a starting place, ask the producer what the DP and the editor are being paid. Not only does it give you a ballpark for your own fees, but it reminds a producer that your services are just as valuable as those of the DP and the editor. Cuz sometimes they NEED reminding!
I'm so remembering that piece of advice Kerry!
That's an exceptional piece of advice, Kerry. And people should insert that clause directly next to the "credit at least or equal to that of the Cinematographer or Editor" clause, as well.
Something I've started doing when working on low budget work is making sure that the contract stipulates it's a sync and master rights use only so that I can resell those cues in music libraries…has anybody done that with any success? One small placement could end up paying for the work that had been done. The filmmakers lose exclusivity of the score…but if they're getting a score for nearly free then I feel I should keep all the rights, as well as the ability to exploit a soundtrack album if I want. Thoughts on this..
Also, I always try to give an estimate of what it SHOULD cost, and let them know I'm giving them a huge deal to help them out…at the very least, I think it's our duty to educate, especially young filmmakers, that it cost money and takes time to do what we do.
Sounds like good practice to me Ryan. Like you say, if you're providing the work for comparatively next to nothing, then i don't think the film-makers have much of an argument on that point.
I also like your idea of letting them know how much it would actually cost them if you were to charge them the full going rate for this sort of work, as it sometimes seems to me that most low budget film-makers don't have much of a clue when it comes to this side of things.
I think this is the ONLY way to go if you're doing low-budget work! It's a custom score and you're licensing the music back to the production: it allows you to put the score on iTunes and keep 100% of the income from that, as well as licensing the cues out, whether that's by pitching or by placing them with a music library. A great score can have so many lives and can generate a lot of money over your lifetime.
I'm with Kerry on this… kudos to you, Ryan, for being savvy and watching out for yourself. This is something that I'm shocked more composers don't ask for. I almost said, "fight for", but in my experience, producers haven't traditionally "fought" me on this at all. They know what their low-budget drama has the potential to do, as well as what its limitations are. Most composers don't even ask, which is tragic. As Kerry already mentioned, scores have a lifespan that can stretch into decades if handled properly. They don't tell you that in music school. m/
[...] the original here: The Culture of Free Share and [...]
The greatest cure for the culture of free….having kids. It's no coincidence that the last pro bono project I worked on was before my kids were born (nine years ago). Once they enter the picture it's a whole new ball game. Loss of income isn't an option.
Along the way the one thing I tried to nurture was the concept that directors hire me, not my music. I market my expertise more than my music since that's what they get when they hire me. You can get music anywhere but it's more difficult to get my expertise. That's what I sell. It's also easier to put a price on that than simply the music.
I have 4 kids (aged 10,8,7,4) and my wife is a full-time stay-at-home mum and I'm a full-time composer/music producer … so I know the pressure. But I will still take on a 'pro bono' project if I think it serves me to do so. I'm working for free on a score for a short made by a 17 yr old Director and animator, it's fantastic … and I want to build that relationship with him, so he'll use me in the future when he gets recognised and has a budget. But I will happily turn down a client (and have) for a job that I know they should have created a budget for and they haven't been bothered to ring-fence one. I don't think it's an issue of never doing things for free … it's an issue of being paid for what you're worth on that job; and that changes.
I completely agree, they're paying for us, the person … but we're not always worth the same amount to everyone across all applications of our craft (e.g. a radio station needing a jingle will not pay per minute what a Hollywood blockbuster will)
I agree Stu. I do think there are times when it's ok to do a 'pro bono' project. Right now I'm working on the score/sound design for a short that some friends of mine put together. Nobody's getting paid on the film. We're kind of a small collective right now and we're ok with that. I would do anything to work with these people. That being said, we're trying with everything we do to get closer to the 'project that actually has a budget'.
If a company though is asking me to write some music and they say they've got no budget for the project, I'm sorry but I can't do that for free. They've got resources to back it if they actually believe in it.
Each situation is unique, but I think there are WAY less situations to work pro bono than people think.
Great post (again)! I would add that it ain't much easier as a performing/recording solo artist. As one who just spent $30k of my hard-saved kachingas to make a record, I'm faced with the sobering reality that if I want people to hear it I will have to pony up more $$$ (for a publicist, radio promoter, etc.) and that is just so more people will eventually get it for free. You may find this little post interesting…http://bobreynoldsmusic.com/how-to-get-a-record-deal-part-1-the-backstory/.
Great post (again)! I would add that it ain't much easier as a performing/recording solo artist. As one who just spent $30k of my hard-saved kachingas to make a record, I'm faced with the sobering reality that if I want people to hear it I will have to pony up more $$$ (for a publicist, radio promoter, etc.) and that is just so more people will eventually get it for free. You may find this little post interesting…http://bobreynoldsmusic.com/how-to-get-a-record-deal-part-1-the-backstory/.
This is something I'd be VERY interested to talk to you about, Bob. I'm at the "middle phase" of the same process, and it's the most life-giving project I've worked on in years, but also the absolute toughest. I've been working overtime on creating the avenues of distribution and creating the means by which this music will hit eardrums. I'd love to compare notes sometime.
All the best, brother!
This is something I'd be VERY interested to talk to you about, Bob. I'm at the "middle phase" of the same process, and it's the most life-giving project I've worked on in years, but also the absolute toughest. I've been working overtime on creating the avenues of distribution and creating the means by which this music will hit eardrums. I'd love to compare notes sometime.
All the best, brother!
"Who fuckin' cares! Are you a baby? No. You're not. You can do this. If you think you can't, call me. I'll convince you that you can in ten minutes. (Maybe five if you aren't too whiny.)"…..you rock, Deane!
"Who fuckin' cares! Are you a baby? No. You're not. You can do this. If you think you can't, call me. I'll convince you that you can in ten minutes. (Maybe five if you aren't too whiny.)"…..you rock, Deane!
Great post! It is very inspirational, as are many of your other posts. I agree wholeheartedly with much of what is said here (including in the comments). I've tried to make it part of my "brand" to put forth the idea of taking music seriously, or embracing what an original score can do for your project. Music is so powerful, but relegated to an afterthought by many producers of media. However, at the end of the day, telling clients my rates is a problem I'd love to have as the only opportunities I can find are usually lo/no budget projects that will have no problem finding someone to work for free. To quote your article, "I do think I can do this", but I'm not sure how to do it successfully yet, if that makes sense. I do know that when I do eventually get opportunities, I won't do them for free. Thanks again!
Great post! It is very inspirational, as are many of your other posts. I agree wholeheartedly with much of what is said here (including in the comments). I've tried to make it part of my "brand" to put forth the idea of taking music seriously, or embracing what an original score can do for your project. Music is so powerful, but relegated to an afterthought by many producers of media. However, at the end of the day, telling clients my rates is a problem I'd love to have as the only opportunities I can find are usually lo/no budget projects that will have no problem finding someone to work for free. To quote your article, "I do think I can do this", but I'm not sure how to do it successfully yet, if that makes sense. I do know that when I do eventually get opportunities, I won't do them for free. Thanks again!
Loved this article and I totally agree. I'm always telling others to pay for their gear and I've never got any libraries illegally. The very idea of it disgusts me. Lots of respect for you man.
Samy—It's been great seeing you around lately, bro! I'm happy you are behind this. Keep evangelizing it! The world (our world) needs to hear it, and some need to hear it every damned day.
Great article Deane , I totally agree, this 'culture of free' is a huge problem and I'm not sure how this attitude people have can be changed now. Many people don't view theft of digital products as theft at all, it's become the norm; if they can get it for free, without much risk, they will. How can this be changed?
Just a quick question about working for free as a composer, would you say there is an exception where this is the right thing to do? For example, I'm always looking for an opportunity to write some music for anything really and I've always assumed I would do it for free because I have no previous experience…
You should not do it for free, it's simple, the day the film's crew have some money, they will pay someone who is famous and who has experience… So this is not the way unless it's a real friend!
You should not do it for free, it's simple, the day the film's crew have some money, they will pay someone who is famous and who has experience… So this is not the way unless it's a real friend!
[...] must read for all composers… http://www.deaneogden.com/2012/02/23/the-culture-of-free/ Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like [...]
[...] find the money to cover your fee. It also plays into Deane Ogden‘s frequent posts about the culture of free. If we agree to free gigs, we are simply affirming to the industry that we are worth… [...]
[...] Because release groups became so incredibly organized and since every facet of a release was being handled by another anonymous and untraceable group of people, the Devs were now faced with a serious dilemma: A) Spend all their time chasing cracked software and trying to stop the bleeding, or B) Concentrate on developing new software like they always had, but hope and pray the government would step in and put a stop to the obvious bullshit. Some chose the former, eventually closing their doors having spent incredible resources on chasing lost profits due to The Scene. Others chose the latter. Of those who stuck it out, some still were unable to keep their doors open and were forced to go out of business. There are several, however, who were able to at least maintain enough income to keep creating, but have also just come to accept piracy as part and parcel of being a contemporary software developer in our new climate of the Culture of Free. [...]
[...] precisely the world you live in right now as a musician. Everything is free. Say it with me: EVERYTHING IS FREE. Get used to that, because it’s not going to change. The way it works now is that instead of [...]